tv Andrea Mitchell Reports MSNBC June 27, 2013 10:00am-11:01am PDT
historic decisions on gay marriage. the president calls it a great day for america. >> it's my personal belief, but i'm speaking now as a president as opposed to as a lawyer, that if you've been married in massachusetts and you move someplace else, you're still married and that under federal law, you should be able to obtain the benefits of any lawfully married couple. >> what's next for the gay marriage debate? our big interview with the unlikely dream team that helped kill prop 8. >> to see the final vindication throughout the united states of the rights of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to equality throughout the united states, that's the promise of the declaration of independence, equal justice for all.
cheers for mandela. crowds gathering outside the pretoria hospital. dancing and singing and demonstrating their love for the south african icon who remains in critical condition. and learning through the arts. yo-yo ma has wowed audiences around the globe, but now the legendary cellist is making shu wounded warriors and our nation's school children get involved in the arts. he'll join us live and he'll play for us. ♪ ♪ good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in colorado at the aspen ideas festival. in senegal today, president obama celebrated the supreme court's twin decisions on same-sex marriage and he said that the administration had already started planning on how
to get benefits to gay couples. >> we now have to comb through every federal statute and -- although we hadn't prejudged what the ruling had been, i had asked my white house counsel to help work with lawyers across every agency in the federal government to start getting a sense of what statutes would be implicated and what it will mean for us to administratively apply the rule that federal benefits apply to all married couples. >> joining me now for our daily fix, nbc justice correspondent pete williams, chuck todd joining us from senegal traveling with the president, of course, our chief white house correspond and host of t"the da rundown."
also chris cillizza. pete, first to you. talk about the ramifications of the decisions. what they did not do yesterday and what needs to still be done as far as the leaders of the movement that enjoy the success of yesterday's twin rulings. >> well, i think justice ant nin sca scalia. suppose sbd is married in albany, then moves to alabama. is their marriage going to be recognized by the federal government? what happens if a couple gets married in one of those states an moves elsewhere, do the federal benefits travel with them. as they are worded now, the answer to most of them, almost all of them, is no. how many of them can be changed by regulation, how many will congress have to make some changes to. that's what the administration is trying to figure out. now there is a separate question, what if a couple never gets married in one of the same-sex marriage states, but if they live together, if they're
domestic partners, should the federal benefits go to them anyway. those are some of the questions they'll have to figure out, andrea. >> chuck todd, were you with the president at the news conference today. he made a lot of news, it struck me, also talking about the hunt for edward snowden. i wanted to play part of what he had had to say on his relationship with both china and russia. >> i have not called president xi personally or president putin personally, and the reason is because, number one, i shouldn't have to. this is something that routinely is dealt with between law enforcement officials in various countries, and this is not exceptional from a legal perspective. >> he is trying not to make it a matter of state between heads of state, chuck. do you think that that can be a successful policy right now in the midst of the storm?
>> well, andrea, what the president is saying essentially, what i've been told behind the scenes, he's been sort of bemused by the media attention being given to edward snowden and this sort of international chase. and he seemed to make it pretty clear to me, and in that sound bite you hear it, you doesn't want this overelevated. he doesn't think it should get to a point where he feels the need that snowden becomes part of a larger negotiation in other parts of the relationship between either china or russia. seemed to make that clear. then he also in response to a question about whether he would use u.s. military and any assets to apprehend snowden, he called him a hacker. basically said, no, i'm not going to scramble jets to go get a 29-year-old hacker. but you're right, he made a lot of other news. one of the more significant things he said was on the voting rights act and he talked about -- while he called the ruling a mistake, he laid out this idea that there is a path to do this without a map.
and i was talking to some senior administration officials afterwards. i said, so, he's not in favor after preclearance map. they said, well, the supreme court said there can't be a map. instead, coming up with criteria that if you do not meet that criteria. for instance, a formula could be if minority voting participation is below the national average in your jurisdiction, then suddenly you would find yourself under justice department supervision. but if you don't meet that, then -- it is something that all 50 states could find themselves a part of rather than singling out essentially the southern states, as had been in the past. so the fact that he's opened the door on that gives you a path to how maybe congress does tackle the voting rights issue. and on doma, i think it was interesting, the president basically said, we're going to try to make sure on a federal level that same-sex marriage is recognized in all 50 states, but he admitted they have to find the legal justification to do
that. >> such an interesting take from the president, hearing him on voting rights, hearing him on doma. and while all of this is taking place, chuck, back home the closure vote on immigration reform. chris cillizza, they're going to have a vote later this afternoon. the senate is actually moving but john boehner is still saying he's not going to take it up in the house. >> andrea, there was just before we came on air a vote on clot e cloture, essentially ending debate or setting the end of the debate on the overall bill, passed 68-32. my guess is that 68-32 is somewhere within -- it's either right on the number or within a vote or two of what the vote will look like on final passage. but to your point, john boehner has been adamant publicly and i've talked to lots of people privately. he's adamant privately that the senate bill will not be taken up by the house, that the house is
proceeding under its own measure. they're trying to go through what they call normal order. it goes through the committee process. it's voted on the house floor, and then the two bills in what's called the conference committee are sort of joined. the issue there is if the house bill that can pass probably doesn't contain a path way to citizenship. it is hard to imagine a senate bill that has a pathway to citizenship, a house bill, if they are able to pass one, that doesn't -- that's kind of hard to get rid of or figure out the difference between. that's a fundamental difference when it goes to confroerence committee. i think a very uncertain future. july 4th recess coming up. then the big long august recess, andrea. possible house members are going to hear from lots of their constituents. that's going to amp up pressure one way or the other on sort of where they head and how they vote. >> chris zcillizza, pete willias and chuck todd from senegal. thank you all very much. continuing on the supreme
court's big deskicision on gay rights, the long-awaited victory for the gay rights movement. but as the president said today in senegal, it still does not mean that marriage equality is the law of the land. >> there are implications that flow from it because the supreme court did not make a blanket ruling that applies nationally but rather left it up to the ability of states to recognize the dignity and respect of same-sex marriage and that the federal government couldn't negate the decision by those states. >> joining me now is the legal dream team that won the case in the supreme court, david boyce and ted olson. first, gentlemen, congratulations. i'm sure the celebrations overnight are still continuing, at least the afterdploe. david, first to you. this unlikely combination you were adversaries in the famous bush v. gore supreme court arguments. here you are partners and
partners in a landmark ruling. tell us how this feels and how it came about. >> well, it feels great. this was -- yesterday and today and tomorrow are just great days for america. the two supreme court decisions that really establish the right of all citizens to be equal, all families to be equal, all loves to be equal, all children to be equal is a great accomplishment for this country. it's been great working with ted. i can guarantee you, it is a lot better to have him on your side than on the other side. one of the great advantages i think of the two of us working together is that we've tried to send a message that this is not a republican or a democratic issue. it is not a conservative or liberal issue. it is a constitutional issue. it is a civil rights issue. it is a human rights issue. it is something all americans, conservatives and liberals
alike, ought to support. >> in fact, ted olson, many of your colleagues, republicans, prominent leaders like marco rubio and chris christie, in new jersey, speaking out strongly against the supreme court's decision. what do you say to them and their criticism in the face of this? >> i would like them to watch the people in san francisco and other parts of california and other parts of the united states celebrating these decisions in the supreme court, because its he's all about love and warmth and being together with the person that you love. tears of joy streaming down people's faces. all over. we came to california after the decisions yesterday, and participated in a rally in west hollywo hollywood, and to look out at all of the people, so happy, that their relationship could be put on an equal footing with other people, other citizens of
the united states. i don't think that you can look into the eyes of those people and not feel the gratitude that they feel for their country, for the supreme court and for those decisions that recognize them as equals in this country. >> now, david, i know that your case was not doma but your part of this whole movement now indelibly. the president in africa was asked about it. he said as a lawyer he couldn't speak, but just as a person he thinks that the benefits should follow married couples from a same-sex marriage state if they have to move, or do move to another state. what do you think and is that the next fight? >> i think that is going to be. i'm not sure it is going to be a fight but i think that's one of the issues that has to be resolve. and i tend to agree with the president that the benefits ought to follow. you don't want to have people lose benefits just because they
cross state lines. this, after all, is one country, and if you have a marriage that is valid in a place where it is celebrated, people oulght to carry those rights with them wherever they go. it is part of the privileges and immunities a citizen has. you don't lose your citizenship just because you cross state lines. so i think that while that's something that people are going to have to work out over the next weeks and months, i think that the president is basically right that that's the most sensible way and the fairest way to deal with it. >> now, is this new team of boies and olson going to stick together and go on? i know tad griffin is going to go to a red state to carry on the fight. what's the next step? >> well, david and i plan to work together on as many occasions as we can, but particularly to see the final vindication throughout the united states of the rights of our gay and lesbian brothers and
sisters to equality throughout the united states. that's the promise of the declaration of independence. equal just fis for all. all men, all women are created equal in this country and we've had a sad chapter of discrimination against our gay and lesbian citizens. david and i are very, very proud to have had a small, small part in helping to remove that stigma. but it is not over yet and we intend to stick together and do everything we possibly can to help. with many other people who have done so much. we said yesterday, we stand on the shoulders or have benefited by the work of many, many other people but we plan to continue to help. >> well, with all due respect, counselor, i disagree -- you did not play a small part. you had a major part and it is a real privilege to interview both of you today and thank you and congratulations. >> thank you. as we continue here from
aspen, we are following latest developments in the george zimmerman trial. rachel jeantel took the witness stand for a second straight day in sanford, florida this morning. focus throughout the day has been on the phone conversations she had with trayvon martin just before theality dhags led to his death. defense attorneys for mr. zimmerman are focused on highlighting discrepancies between accounts of that conversation given by jeantel through various interviews. she testified she told trayvon martin to run away when he rae laid concern over being followed. you hurt my feelings, todd.
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george mitchell is a former united states senator, the majority leader. also special envoy for middle east peace during president obama's first term in office. it is such a pleasure to be with you today. >> thanks. >> john kerry, as you know better than anyone, trying to get things started again against the backdrop now of syria coming unglued and we expect egypt to have what some are calling the second egyptian revolution on sunday, the first anniversary of morsi. a lot of talk in the region that this is going to be a pivotal moment. how is it possible to get the israel-palestinian talks even restarted against that backdrop? >> with great difficult. commend secretary kerry for the effort that he's making. i think the objective reality is that it is very much in the interests of both israelis and palestinians to reach agreement, but politically difficult. i think they will come around ultimately. he hope, soon, to recognize that
it is going to be much worse for both of them if they don't reach an agreement. the region is in turmoil. that will continue for a long time. what we're seeing now we regard as abnormal but i think it will become the new normal. you have turbulence spreading in a region where the boundaries were set, mostly by colonial powers, where you've had governments that are mostly dictatorships, military dictatorships or monarchies. contending forces, the established government, the zimizi islamists, the secular westerners. it is a region in turmoil and it is going to grow over the next years. let me give you one statistic. right now, 1 out of 5 persons on earth is muslim. about 1.2 billion. 40 years from now it will be 1 out of 3, more than 3 billion. sunni versus shia, clan versus
clan, for a very long time and israel would be much better served locking down with the palestinians, then aligning with the gulf arabs against the real threat which comes from iran. >> i want to ask you about nelson mandela. you negotiated the northern ireland peace accords and the new model of reconciliation in south africa that was uniquely created by mandela and really was the model for north africa. talk to that. >> it was. i met mandela when he came to address a joint session of congress and as snaenate majori leader i hosted a luncheon. he thanked me for the u.s. congress overriding the president's veto on sanctions against south africa. >> president reagan. >> yes, that's right. the president had credible reasons for doing it but we felt it would be better to impose the sanctions. we did and both mandela and declerk told me that was a
critical decision in moving away from apartheid. mandela was of course terrific. when i went to northern ireland, a lot of what we did in northern ireland was drawn on the experience of south africa. and there was a great story of a delegation of irish catholic -- northern irish catholic politicians and protestant poll significances going to south africa to meet with south african leaders and mandela adressed them. they wouldn't sit together, so they were in separate rooms. and mandela, in his great way, scolded them. he said, here you are in a country where we just got rid of apartheid, and you won't even sit in the same room together. it made a profound impact on them and many, many of the northern irish politicians took their cue and the leadership from mandela and the experience in south africa. that helped us a lot in northern island. >> profound influence around the world. george mitchell, thank you so
much. >> thank you, andrea. >> thanks for sharing that. we'll be right back with much more from aspen. help the gulf recover, and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all our drilling activity, twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. safety is a vital part of bp's commitment to america - and to the nearly 250,000 people who work with us here. we invest more in the u.s. than anywhere else in the world. over fifty-five billion dollars here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
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welcome back to aspen, colorado. what are states that do not permit same-sex marriage going to do now in response to the supreme court's big rulings on gay marriage? colorado governor john jicama of georgia joins us. there was a referendum for state vote i think in 2006, a ruling against gay marriage. what's colorado going to do? >> we have something also in our constitution that prohibits it and i think that gets always into difficult areas when your state constitution is not conforming with something the supreme court says. my guess is we will go back and try an clean up our constitution. >> what happens when couples get transferred here or move to colorado? and can they -- do you think they'll be able to carry with them the benefits that they bring from where they were married in massachusetts and new
york, or new hampshire? >> civili union gives those thoe benefits. they'll have state benefits. what's denied are the federal benefits. >> that's a big deal. >> that's a long, long list. probably even more important is the pride, people being able to express their love in a way that is traditional and very valuable to them. >> is this going to become a fight in colorado? is this a fight that you would lead? >> i'm unclear how hard a fight it will be. i have spoken out to make sure that we have the same legal rights for everyone since before i ever dreamed of getting into politics. i worked 16 years in the restaurant business and everyone is the same. when you're in the weeds, you've got a rush and all these people coming in your restaurant, everybody has to work together and everybody deserves equal rights. >> guns. no progress at all at least at the federal level.
and here in the state where aurora happened, the horror of all of that. has the impulse faded or do you think that there still can be something done on background checks? >> i think there could still be something on background checks. people haven't gotten the facts out. right? we went back and looked at 2012. just in one year, just in colorado -- we got to maybe a little more than half the gun purchases, we had 38 people that were accused or convicted of homicide. 133 people convicted of -- or accused of sexual assault beep had 420 people that had judicial restraining orders against them trying to buy guns. 620 burglars. 1,300 felonious assaults. we had 236 people -- people keep saying criminals aren't stupid, you're just making problems for the rest of us? we had 236 people that when she showed up to pick up their new gun we arrested them for an outstanding warrant. they work. universal background checks -- i ask everyone is it worth the $10
for you to get that background check if this is who we apprehended. of course, some of them went and got guns somewhere else. but the fact is they are trying to buy guns through the channels and this is helping to stop them. keeping guns out of the wrong people's hand is important. >> on your way here you were in the fire zone checking on the wildfires. contained? what is the situation right now? >> the movement has slowed dramatically. they're not contained. i think so far on this, this new group of fire -- we had three fires all in one area. we haven't lost any structures yet. firefighters have done an amazing job. these guys work 12-hour days, day after day after day after day. it is amazing what they do. but we're not close to containment. it is so dry. and they had a number of days of wind. now the wind has calmed down and i think everyone's hopeful that we get a couple of days of low wind. maybe a thunderstorm, little bit of moisture. then we'll get these things
buckled up. >> governor hickenlooper, thank you very much. anti-government protests escalated in brazil overnight. police in the capital city used teargas to clear masses of people who had gathered in front of the national congress building. demonstrations are calling for a crackdown on corruption. protests have continued for two weeks despite government concessions on funding for public services. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] just when you thought you had experienced performance, a new ride comes along and changes everything. ♪ the 2013 lexus gs, with a dynamically tuned suspension and adjustable drive modes. because the ultimate expression of power is control.
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it's the most powerful thing on the planet. love holds us in the beginning. comforts us as we grow old. love is the reason you care. for all the things in your life... that make life worth living. ♪ ♪ sweet love of mine welcome back. nelson mandela remains in hospital. today doctors said his condition has improved somewhat overnight. president obama reflected on the legacy that mandela leaves behind. >> he is a personal hero, but i
don't think i'm unique in that regard. i think he's a hero for the world and if and when he passes from this place, one thing i think we'll all know is that his legacy is one that will linger on throughout the ages. >> joining me now is nbc news special correspondent charlaine hunter gault in new york. so good to see you. i know you talked to zindzi mandela, a phone interview with mandela's daughter. i wanted to play a little bit of that audio from earlier today. >> he was very comfortable. was very comfortable and was responding like as i was chatting to him. you know, because he was sleeping. when i was there so when i got in and he i greeted him there he opened his eyes. >> it is hard to overstate the significance. i was talking earlier about
george mitchell a few minutes ago about how much influence mandela had on the northern island catholics and protestants when they came to south africa and he scolded them for refusing to even meet in the same room and that was a big break-through there, and around the world as well. >> it's very interesting, i've been re-reading a lot of his background and history and he learned a lot about how to negotiate and mediate. growing up in the regent's house in timbu, the clan where he was born and he was brought up there, and so he watched these elders as they negotiated things and he was so impressed because they listened a lot before they intervened. that's what i've heard about him, and seen in action, too, that he listens a lot to everybody's viewpoints and then he responds. of course, one of his friends
who was in robin island with limb, says, you know, he can be arrogant, too, and he can put his foot down. so he's not a namby-pamby but he also believes in congeniality and hearing everybody out. >> charlaine, what is going on? you talked to zindzi, with the family and with all of the thousands of people who are now out on the streets in pretoria outside the hospital. this is such an emotional passage. how are they holding up? >> well, i think the family is really doing well because they respond to him. and when they go to see him in hospital, even though he may be sleeping a lot of the time, as zindzi said earlier, he heard her, he opened his eyes, he smiled. he told her the other day -- she said, there is a lot of interesting things going on here in this country. president obama is coming. up to that point his eyes had had been closed, she said he
opened his eyes and smiled. so he's still conscience, although he's lost some of his mental capacities but he's still with it on some things and he recognizes family members and so that keeps them hopeful. and i think that they have all decided that, as they call him tata, is going to decide when he leaves this place. >> charlaine hunter gault, thank you so much for being with us today. joining me now, a very special guest. legend himself, award winning cellist, music educator yo-yo ma. we're here to talk about music education, arts education, how you would expand s.t.e.m. education to be s.t.e.a.m. education. the importance of art and music. >> i think of art as including the humanities and culture. and i think there is nobody that doesn't come from culture. and there's nobody that i know
who's not human. and the idea is that joining what we say constantly, that what we need in the workforce of the 21st century, we need people who are collaborative, flexible, imaginative and innovative. >> sounds like a string quartet to me. >> we call it by that name. what i think is so wonderful about the performing arts in general is that these are exactly the qualities that you can seed and trained and discipline. along with science, technology, engineering and math, adding the arts, culture and humanities makes us whole, it allows us to imagine a world that we all want to live in. >> this country talks a good game. you are a kennedy center hon yoree. have you the presidential medal of freedom. yet the first thing that we cut from the budget when there are
skwus t sequesters such as public school districts like the district of columbia are arts, education. >> one of the things that's interesting, i do some work in chicago, chicago symphony orchestra. one of the things that chicago has done as a city is that they went and did a lot of town hall meetings and said what do we need for culture plan, what do you want in the core curriculum. they all voted for the arts and now it is part of the core curriculum. so it's -- in a democracy we get the country we deserve. so in that sense, a place like the ideas festival is to convene and figure out what do we really want. what kinds of ideas are really worth fighting for. it invites participation. full participation. >> why is music important to children? >> because children have incredible imagination. we don't want to lose that imagination as they go through k through 12 through college to their jobs, because what
imagination leads to is passion, innovation, invention, the qualities we need, and imagination is what is something that you can't give to kids in any other way but through the senses, through your ears, through hearing, through seeing, through feeling, through touching. and then what music does, it becomes memorable. things that become memorable are things that you can build on. and that's what education does. that's hopefully the best part of education, is memorable. music i think involves all of the human -- the whole person. >> i saw you with the wounded warriors at the kennedy center. tell me about that experience. going up and working with them and creating this musical group. >> well, i think one of the things that we know how hard it is for returning veterans to
reintegrate into life, whether it's through jobs or just to be able to tell to others what they've seen. well, through writing stories, through being able to -- through music, you can actually show what you can't show in any other way that's socially acceptable. because what you've seen are things that normally we don't want to deal with. and i think there's nothing -- i think we cannot do enough for our returning veterans, and especially for those that have really given up life or limb. and i think we want to reintegrate what they've given all of themselves, we need to give all of ourselves back to them so they feel whole and protected and they know that we're grateful. >> yo-yo ma, you're going to stay with us for just a moment.
but first i want to go back to washington. pete williams has some breaking news on the boston marathon case. pete? >> andrea, the federal grand jury has now returned the next step in the charge against the remaining suspect in the boston marathon case, dzhokhar tsarnaev. this follows on to the original criminal complaint on which he was arrested. he's charged now with killing three people at the boston marathon, maiming or seriously injuring several other people, and shooting and killing the m.i.t. police officer, shawn collier. some of the details in the indictment are new. for example, prosecutors say that as tsarnaev was hiding from the police, bleeding in that boat in the backyard in water ton, massachusetts, he wrote on the inside wall beams of the boat. we've known that but now we have more details of what you wrote. he wrote, among other things, "the u.s. government is killing our innocent civilians.
i can't stand to see such evil go unpunished. we muslims are one body. you hurt one, you hurt us all. now i don't like killing innocent people. it is forbidden in islam, but due to said events -- it is unintelligible, the indictment says -- it is allowed and stop killing our innocent people and we will stop. so this indictment means now that there will not be a preliminary hearing that had been scheduled for early july, but he will have to have another court appearance to be -- to appear on the indictment and enter a plea. his first court appearance, you remember, was actually not in court, it was in the hospital shortly after he was arrested. he's obviously in much better condition now, so it is quite probable he'll be in federal court to face these new charges, andrea. >> pete williams, thanks so much for that. after this very short break, we will be back and yo-yo ma will have a special treat for all of us. ...so you say men are superior drivers?
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>> thank you, yo-yo. thank you for being with us. and we'll be right back. ♪ [ grunts ] yowza! that's why i eat belvita at breakfast. it's made with delicious ingredients and carefully baked to release steady energy that lasts... we are golfing now, buddy! [ grunts ] ...all morning long. i got it! for the win! uno mas! getting closer! belvita breakfast biscuits -- steady energy to do what i do all morning long. now we go back to florida to the zimmerman trial with the resumption of testimony. >> -- your answer right after that. do you know what we are focusing on now?
>> yes, sir. >> and we're going to continue it a little longer after that. feel free to listen to it carefully, but the one thing we want to know for sure is what you said following mr. de la rionda's first comments and questions. >> yes, sir. >> did he ever describe -- yeah, the guy now he's out of the car and he's chasing. he said the guy was following him, but did he ever say the guy got out of the car? i want to know the truth whether he said that or not. if he didn't say that, that's fine. >> when he like walking -- >> i know trayvon is running. right? or walking. my question is did trayvon ever describe to you, hey -- you know howfy see a football game, i say the guy was running fast or the guy ran to the left -- >> when he was at the mail thing --
>> yeah. >> -- he was on the phone. he telling me the man was on the phone. he put his hoodie on. the man was down one car. then car and trayvon started walking. he said, i think the man got on for some reason. >> that's what you believe. >> yeah, because he said the man was following him. he didn't say the man got out. >> yeah. >> but trayvon thought the man got out of the car. >> yeah. >> okay. fine. >> that's the video. you heard the audio clip that we wanted to proffer to this witness. >> well, then ask her your next question. the question for the proffer. >> after hearing mr. del dela rianda's question that ends
with, but did he ever say the guy got out of the car, your answer was, in fact, you want that, too, wasn't it? >> yes, sir. yes, sir. >> your honor, i'm going to ask that this be played for the jury. thank you. >> it's not a dispute so why is it being played? i apologize, i'm not trying to make a speaking objection but -- >> i understand what you're saying, that it would not be impeachment. >> right. >> the objection then why is it going to be played because it's not impeachment. she indicated that that was her answer. >> the court ruled, i thought a moment ago, when i said i would like to play it for the jury and the court ascented.
>> there was an objection and the objection was that that was not -- that statement was not impeachment since she has said that, yes, that's what i said. >> well, this witness squarely denied having said it before the jury. >> you could ask her that question again. >> and i want to play the recording for the jury so they can hear it for themselves, not just the sort of naked answer, yes, i did say that, you want that, too, i want the context of it, and i want the nuance of the language and the idea that this witness was saying to mr. dela rianda, you want that, too, i want to know the truth. >> i understand because i heard it, too, and i understand your argument, but for impeachment you have the witness, in this case listen to listen and read to themselves what the question and answer was and then you ask
them, is that what you said? and they admit it. or they say, yes, i did or, no, i didn't. if they say, no, i didn't, then that's impeachment and you play it for the jury, and she's admitting that that's what it was. so -- >> your honor, my response there is that -- >> i'm not finished. >> i'm sorry. >> thank you. so to play that in front of the jury is not impeachment, that's the objection. and you can ask ms. ge jeantel,d you have an opportunity to listen to the statement, yes. now i'm going to ask you the question again, is that your answer. if she gives an answer that is not what you think is appropriate, then you play it to the jury. >> may i respond briefly? >> yes, you may. >> when this witness was confronted with the -- with a transcript before the jury -- >> she wasn't presented a transcript on that. she asked for one and you said
you wanted to play the tape. that's when i said we'd do that outside the presence of the jury. she was not provided a transcript on that -- on that questioning. >> your honor, i'm sorry, but i believe that she was. i handed her two transcripts, and my transcript said, you want that, too. mr. dela rianda's transcript said you want that, too, with a couple other words after that. the witness said i never said that. i want the jury to hear the witness's own words. now i have the right to confront her with her own words in front of the jury and her own words are on this recording so i want to play the recording for the jury as to what this witness denied, first of all under oath, which has now been i think indispute tedly proven to be true. >> you can ask her that question and if she denies it, you can play it for the jury, but you've given her an opportunity to listen to it and review it as if
it were a transcript that she would review that had that on there and she's now given you her answer. if she answers differently when the jury is present, then you may play it. >> our position is we had the -- >> i understand your position. that's my ruling. >> are we going to go any further? >> no. >> thank you. >> i'll refer you back to the court's ruling. are we ready to bring the jury in? >> yes, your honor. >> and we're monitoring the decisions in the courtroom. lisa bloom, our msnbc legal
analyst joins us now. lisa, the significance of the judge's decision on that testimony. >> well, the defense attorney wants to get in a prior deposition statement made by this witness that contradicts the testimony that she gave in court according to him, and the judge was making a ruling that he could get it in if she testifies now, now that she's coming back to the stand now that the jury's being brought back in in a way that's inconsistent with her prior testimony. that's what cross examination is all about, showing the jury that the witness has made inconsistent statements in the past and therefore they can't be believed. that's the idea. >> and how do you think her credibility has held up? >> you know, andreandrea, i hav tell you i have heard divergent views to people who think she is extremely credible to people who say she has absolutely no credibility. it's hard to see. she has stuck to her story that trayvon martin told her that he was being followed, that the phone has dropped, she has said
in this trial that he said get off, get off, which applies that george zimmerman was physically aggressive towards him. on cross examination a lot of inconsistencies have come out, even outright lies that she had to admit that she told. >> and what is the charge now for the prosecution on redirect to try to re-establish whatever credibility may have been pierced during that cross? >> that's exactly right. so on cross examination the defense clearly has scored some points. i expect the prosecutor to get up, if and when this cross examination ends, and rehabilitate her by allowing her to explain some of her answers, allowing her to embellish. this is a 19-year-old young woman. of course she's going to make some mistakes when she tells the story over and over again. this is a very traumatic time for her and for the family. she was emotionally distraught for a period of a time. she finds herself in the middle of a high profile trial and clearly does not want to be. i expect testimony along those
lines on redirect. >> lisa, from your knowledge of juries, how do you think they react to a young woman put in this situation? she really, as you point out, didn't want to be there. what about the balancing act that the defense lawyer had to weigh in how aggressive to be with her? >> he's got to be very careful. he's got to be sensitive to her. this is a jury of six women, five mothers. he has to treat her with kid gloves. >> the defense is back up now. let's listen. >> asked you did trayvon martin ever say that the guy got out of the car. do you remember those questions? >> yes, sir. >> and do you remember me presenting you with a transcript of that interview where your answer was, you want that, too? do you remember that? >> yes, sir. >> and you also saw the transcript with mr. -- from mr.
delarianda. the answer was, you want that, too, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and when i asked you, did you in fact say that, you said, i did not say that, correct? >> yes, sir. >> now in the break before we reconvened you've -- we have actually played that recording for you, have we not? >> yes, sir. >> and we played that particular portion where mr. delarianda said, did trayvon martin ever say that the guy got out of the car. did you hear that? >> yes, sir. >> and you heard your answer as well, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and, in fact -- and, in fact, your answer was to mr. delarianda's question, you want that, too, wasn't it? >> yes, sir. >> nothing further. thank you, judge. >> thanks very much. redirect? >> may it please the court.
let's get first things out of the play. the bald headed dude for purposes of the record, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> i've got one of those last names that most people can't pronounce and so anyway, i'm curious, you grew up, i guess, in a haitian family? >> yes, sir. >> your mother speaks creole or haitian? >> creole, yes, sir. >> okay. and the reason is i ask in terms of from a cultural or just from learning english, english was not my native tongue. i spoke spanish first. in doing that, did you learn creole first or did you learn english first in terms of -- i'm curious sometimes there's a cultural thing, we say things, it isn't as clear to everybody. >> creole and spanish. >> okay.